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Pubs in Leeds closing down ?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by David L, May 1, 2015.

  1. David L

    David L Registered User

    Anyone have any thoughts on why pubs are closing down at an alarming rate in Leeds ? It seems every week I see another one closed down, boarded up and then demolished.......

    Whats yer thoughts ? :suspect:
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  3. Fastfreddy

    Fastfreddy Well-Known Member

    Well its a number of factors. a) You cant drink and drive (a good thing) b) You cant smoke in a pub c) the beer is too expensive especially when you have to get a taxi home or somebody has to come and pick you up d) An increasing muslim population that doesnt allegedly drink alchohol e) the pubs as a consequence of all of the above dont seem to have the buzz and the character they once had.
  4. David L

    David L Registered User

    Some good points there F/F, firstly which you are right about, we cant drink and drive.......we have always had to keep a check on this, so is it having an effect on pubs closing down ? I`m not sure.....secondly yes you cant smoke in a pub, and have to stand outside like sub humans treated worse than animals.....would this have an effect ? im not sure as I do not smoke. thirdly yes again beer may be too expensive I will agree.....The point you make which does interest me is regarding Muslims, are you suggesting the powers that be are preparing for the Islamification of Britain ? as we all know they are not supposed to drink alcohol so is this maybe a reason ?

    Whatever the reasons are, I find it very convenient that pubs are closing down, suddenly beer is too expensive, smoking bans are in force and apparently no one wants to be a Landlord and run a Pub......I also find it strange that some local Pubs which were quite old and very Architectural have been demolished very quickly, to remove all traces of a Pub ever being there.....:suspect:
  5. Fastfreddy

    Fastfreddy Well-Known Member

    Hello David. No I am suggesting that in certain parts of Leeds and Bradford and other areas with high muslim populations pubs have closed in large numbers. This is nothing to do with race hatred etc it is simply the fact that Mulsims do not drink alchohol, and I guess these pubs are unattractive to drinkers who slowly migrate elsewhere. Its business ecconomics isnt it?

    The rural village pubs are struggling simply because there aren't enough drinkers spending enough and rural location means non villagers have to drive there....and who is going to drive miles for 1 pint in a scenic pub.....clearly fewer then used to otherwise the pubs wouldnt be closing.

    young people these days seem to prefer the city centre wine bar and theme bars with all the rubbish and risk that goes with it.

    Taking everything into consideration the landscape for the traditional pub has seriously changed in the last 20 years. There are also the issues of the large brewers (conglomorates) buying up competitors then closing pubs to developers etc...

    The interesting development that I like however that has started to imerge in the last few years is the brewery open nights at places like Saltaire brewery and the small continental style bar often created from a regualar shop unit but just selling a few well kept real ales to people who dont want themes and fighting just civilised conversation and a decent drink.

    Its an interesting subject this one maybe it could be the first subject for our debtating thread. I am thinking about it.
  6. JohnnoLS8

    JohnnoLS8 Member

    I think the main reasons why so many pubs are closing are (1) the smoking ban, (2) the price of beer, and (3) many young people don't seem to have inherited the 'pub culture' in the way that previous generations did.

    I think the argument about Muslims is a red herring. I remember when the Fforde Grene in Harehills used to be packed on an evening, and there were just as many Muslims living in the area then as there are now.

    I have a hunch that the police would much prefer it if most pubs are concentrated in a few areas, to make their job easier. So they are happy if 'local' pubs to lose their licences far more easily than they would have done, say thirty years ago.
  7. Fastfreddy

    Fastfreddy Well-Known Member

    Fforde Green used to have a lot of live music and bands. Thats the difference with that one.Something to make the journey worth while.

    Beleive me this isnt a red herring. The Bradford central zone pub landscape has changed beyond recognition.

    Its nothing to do with the Police but they can object to the renewal of licences when they come up for renewal as can local residents etc
  8. JohnnoLS8

    JohnnoLS8 Member

    I never used to go to The Ffordy to watch live bands, I just used to go there with my mates for a few pints on a Friday evening. If there had been more pubs round here then it would be easier to say whether there was a real overall trend, but of course there never were many pubs round Harehills to start with!
  9. Rick

    Rick Member

    Never really thought of that before, but there does seem an unusual lack of pubs for the density of population. Compton, Dock Green, Fforde Green, what else? The Irish bar - can't remember the name - but there must have been some smaller pubs. Or did the WMCs get the trade?

    As for pubs closing, they have been dwindling in numbers since the end of the C19th. If you want a good appraisal of the reasons read this:


    as a confirmed anti-smoker I used to dismiss the idea that the smoking ban contributed to pub closures, but I'll admit to being wrong on that after reading the paper.

    It's full of surprising things, one of the most eye opening being that 40% of all alcohol duty raised in the EU is paid by the UK. A levy decided by the UK government, not the EU.
  10. David L

    David L Registered User

    As a non smoker all of my life, I personally never saw it as a problem people smoking in pubs, it was just one of the things you accepted......yes of course you wouldn't want to breath it all in, but it was all part and parcel of a night out..........I remember the Bridgefield Pub in East Leeds many years ago, one of there rooms was mainly used for smokers, the tap room I think it was called, what happened to that idea ?

    Or is it a case of being controlled by Government, stand outside like the lowlifes you are ....???
  11. JohnnoLS8

    JohnnoLS8 Member

    The 'Irish bar' was Delaney's, but it's closed now and being redeveloped as something or other. The Brown Hare is still there on Harehills Lane, but that's about it. The Fountain Head isn't far out of the area on Beckett Street, and there used to be the Florence Nightingale near that. Go back further andthere was the Gaiety on Roundhay Road and the Prince Arthur near Thomas Danby college. And of the course the three you mentioned which are all gone now.
  12. jackdaly

    jackdaly Member

    Popular Pub was the Gipton on Roundhay Road just above the Astoria.

    The Florence Nightingale was called the Cemetery previously (Ugh opposite the Hospital. I think you are right about the W. M.s Clubs having a stronghold in the Leeds 8 area.
  13. JohnnoLS8

    JohnnoLS8 Member

    The Gipton is at Oakwood, and I think it's called The Roundhay now. (It's had a few changes of name over the years!)

    You've reminded me that there used to be a little bar at the back of the Astoria called the Keyhole Bar, where you could go for a drink. It was nice, but I used to wonder if anyone actually knew it was there!

    And it's a good point about Harehills having plenty of clubs rather than pubs. The WMC, the Labour club and the Conservative club are all within spitting distance of each other, and the Liberal club isn't far away.
  14. Fastfreddy

    Fastfreddy Well-Known Member

    As a non smoker for life I hated any pub that was full of smoke. One of the reasons we rarely went to pubs and a reason why we do go for a drink now. However I live in a small village and I have to drive to the pub so I can only have 1 pint or sometimes I might push my luck and have a second. Its not really a night out is it, and the selection of bottled real ales at the supermarket these days make it almost a non stater. However there is more to the pub these days than the beer. We often go to the pub for a meal and a drink or sometimes we go for the quiz night, but in terms of regularly spending the money that keeps the place open I am afraid its not us doing it.
  15. jackdaly

    jackdaly Member

    Like I mentioned earlier the Gipton pub was on the left hand side just higher up than the Astoria. we used to go every Saturday night in the music Lounge.
    It was a large detached building with a bowling green at the rear.
    The beer sold was something like B.Y.B. or Duttons (not your usual Tetley's or Melbourne)
  16. JohnnoLS8

    JohnnoLS8 Member

    I think your memory might be playing tricks with you! They were actually quite a fair distance apart.

    The Gipton is right up at Oakwood, just beyond where Homebase was until recently (next to Tesco on the site of the old Olympia Works.)

    The Astoria was located in the triangle between Roundhay Road, Gledhow Valley Road and Harehills Avenue. It's been replaced with flats now, sadly, because it was a great little music venue.
  17. jackdaly

    jackdaly Member

    With a few pints in the Ffordy and a couple in the Gipton staggering down to the Astoria to try and grab a Granny it seemed quite close.

    I remember one night in the Astoria watching Ronny Hilton, the Leeds singer who had had some problem with paying for some neck ties in a Leeds shop, the Law was involved. some girls threw ties onto the floor where he was performing. very embarrassing all round.
  18. Yeah BYB Bentleys Yorkshire Breweries. Eshaldwell Woodlesford. Down near Canal now all flats and houses. A real Brewery. My Dad had the Sporty in Morley, they always gave you a rough one to sort out before they gave you something better. He sorted that out then got the Swillington Hotel (now an Indian) up the road from the Brewery. The Director were all down to earth and spent every lunchtime having a pint in one of the local pubs including Dads. I think the Property Director was call Albany Hanks always stuck in my mind. They had a BYB shop on Queen Victoria St or King Edward StCentral Leeds, with a shop window displaying there ales. The landlords had to go down and pay the brewery bill in cash there to the regional manager. All swivel chairs and leather. We had to go down on the bus with the takings to pay in. My Auntie worked in the 'Bottling Oil' at Woodlesford and the bottle wash some real 'ladies' in there! He eventually got a good BYB pub the Nelson Arms at Morley, however after having 'arrived' it was not long before Whitbread bought them out and things changed for the worse. They also bought out Duttons OBJ (Oh Be Joyful). Not long till the breweries were shut down. Remember the BYB beers as Special Pale Ale, Eshaldwell Ale, Old Timothy their Barley Wine type named after Timothy Bentley. It was sold in 'nips' and bottles. So you and the wife could have a 'Timothy and a Nip Timothy'. Also spent a bit of time at the brewery and there you could get Nakaed Timothy straight from the brew one wiff and you were feeling dizzy !! Them were the Days!
  19. Fastfreddy

    Fastfreddy Well-Known Member

    My parents lived in Woodlesford and my dad often drank at the Swillington Hotel. My dad was a miner for a lot of years until the risks and near misses convinced him to look for something safer.
  20. OldLeeds

    OldLeeds New Member

    The no smoking ban was a significant change and believe it or not so was the change of the licencing laws allowing all day drinking (and night).
    Firstly the smoking ban stopped the old regulars who mainly smoked going to the pup, who wants to stand outside in freezing rain instead of playing dominoes. Provision should have been made for a fully air conditioned, well ventilated area for smokers with bar staff who also smoked ( I am not a smoker). These people now drink at home alone and have lost a significant social activity.
    Secondly the new licencing laws gave the local councils added powers which made the licensee life a misery with the added bureaucracy almost encouraging them to leave.
  21. David L

    David L Registered User

    Good post OldLeeds, there`s a lot of sense in what you say.....:thumbs2:

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